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Thriller in Manila
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On Oct 1, 1975, World Heavyweight Boxing Champ Muhammad Ali was on the ring with his arch contender Joe Frazier for the third time.
This battle on the Republic of the Philippines, that is dubbed Thriller in Manila, is known as one of the most striking boxing matches all time from word of the voice-over, They detested each other.
With assistance from archive stuff and eyewitness reports (admitting Imelda Marcos), this docudrama not only simply constructs the friction match, but establishes what was taking place behind the settings too.
Thriller in Manila,
Also, here’s a review of the doc that explains it’s unfair bias: “‘Manilla’: HBO’s Hit Job on Muhammad Ali” please access this via the National Sports Review Web site. (I’d like to provide the direct link/Web address, but You Tube won’t allow it.)
Read them, most are positive reviews. There’s really only one review that makes an attempt to dispel “myths” presented in the film but despite the length of the review it is pretty poorly written and not based in any solid foundational reasoning. PM and we can have a more in depth discussion about that if you want.
I just want to say that if you want in-depth discussion about how this revisionist propaganda film is so biased and, at times untrue, you–or anyone else for that matter– should visit the IMDb website and checkout the profile for this documentary.If you visit the post boards, you find detailed discussion as to how slanted and at times fabricated this film really is.
Another instance of film manipulation is the sequence in which Ali appears to concede to speaking at a Klan rally. The footage has been heavily edited. Undoubtedly, Dower was trying to get the “Shirley Sherrod” effect by altering archived footage to generate a false impression. There’s no way in hell that a man like Ali, arguably the world’s most famous person, could have done this w/o news of it leaking to the media or any photographic record of him appearing at such an event.
View this sequence in the documentary (It appears “in part 5″ at 3:00) and compare it to the ENTIRE footage footage shown here on You Tube–”Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier Wide World Of Sports Studio Brawl 1974.” You will see that the footage has been altered in this doc to make it appear that Ali instigated the brawl, although it was really Frazier.
There are many instances, but here is a prime example of how this film is biased to Frazier and how it manipulates footage to propagandize. The doc discussed how Ali would insult Joe by calling him “ignorant” and to illustrate this they show a film clip of the famous altercation between the two on the Wide World of Sports w/ Cosell. However, the footage shown in this doc is edited to lead the viewer into thinking that Ali was the instigator, but actually Joe started the argument (part1).
Additionally, you can’t say Ali has no support in this film. One of the primary narrators was a guy who was in his corner for years (Ferdie Percheco) and another is his official biographer (Thomas Hauser). I’m curious though; which pertinent information do you feel has been left out and which parts of the film do you feel are presented in an unjustifiably biased manner?
You probably wouldn’t say “When We Were Kings” is propaganda, but it’s presented from Ali’s side of the story with little support for Foreman. At any rate, you left out a large part of the wikipedia definition you used, which in itself is not at all a comprehensive definition. I’m not going to argue semantics, it’s a waste of time. My point is that this piece is obviously not intended to deceive since it claims it’s presenting Joe’s side from the outset.
Definition of propaganda: “As opposed to IMPARTIALLY providing information, propaganda presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts SELECTIVELY (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis.” And this documentary meets ALL of the above criteria. The problem is that this doc gives only Joe’s side and because of that A LOT of pertinent facts are omitted.
People are so angry about another side of Ali’s legacy being exposed. He’s human, and he’s gonna have bad, human emotions like anyone. Ali used propaganda against Joe Frazier for all three of their fights. Now people are mad that it’s come back on Ali? Think beyond his legacy and see the other side of the of coin. Joe Frazier deserves his story told. Regardless both were of the greatest fighters ever, one remembered, one forgotten and they gave us one of the greatest stories in sports.
@lwmson Bias and propaganda are not synonymous. Presenting one person’s side of the story, especially when their side is rarely told (as in Joe’s case) does not equate to propaganda. There’s no attempt to mislead, persuade or coerce towards any cause or position; this is simply a presentation of a different perspective. You may not like or agree with it, but it’s good to have a well rounded perspective on history.
@lwmson Bob Arum is far from being an objective source. His opinion does not bear weight in this discussion. Of course this is biased, anything told from one perspective will be; that point is not in dispute, it says from the very beginning that this is Joe’s side of the story. This is not propaganda though. Two consistent narrators are Ferdie Pacheco (Ali’s corner for years) and Ali’s own biographer, offering juxtaposition to Joe’s perspective. Ali is a great man, but he didn’t treat Joe fairly
@Scr3amingN1nja47 It’s a BIASED, slanted perspective, which makes it propaganda. Add to that, a lot of information asserted, particularly in regard to the fight trilogy, is untrue. As Bob Arum said the doc is designed to demean Ali and unfairly portray him as a demonic figure.
Ali really was pathetic though sometimes the way he acted I mean say what you like about Floyd Mayweather Jr but he never insulted his fellow black fighters in the way Ali did – if a white person said the stuff Ali said we would call him racist but cos it is Ali it is just mocking get real!
This isn’t propaganda, it’s perspective. Frazier has a side to the story as well. I’m an Ali fan, he’s one of my idols, but a lot of you are reflexively going over board trying to defend him. You have to accept that while a great man, he is not perfect. He’s made mistakes in his life. This documentary takes nothing from Ali’s legacy, but you have to accept the man for who he is, not idealize him and pretend he has no flaws. Joe is also a great man, and he deserves to have his story heard.
@rdcvgr88 You don’t have your facts straight. Ali never called Joe “uneducated.” He did call him “ignorant,” which is something to the same effect, but the time he called Joe “ignorant” and it led to an altercation in a TV studio in ’74, Joe was the one who instigated it. Of course, this biased documentary has edited the footage to make it appear that Ali was the instigator, but Ali calling Joe “ignorant” on that TV show was a reaction to Joe’s banter.
@rdcvgr88 No, he didn’t go a different route. The very reason why Ali called Joe “The Gorilla” was because it rhymed w/Manila. He called Joe a “Tom” because Joe, like Terrell and Patterson, would constantly and DELIBERATELY call him “Clay.” Now I do admit Joe had some justification to do this, because he was trying to give Ali a taste of his medicine. But to say that Ali was racist by calling Joe a “Tom,”as this documentary does, is stupid.
The only thing this documentary could do was damage Frazier’s image, something he didn’t deserve. ‘When we were kings’ is a far better picture and Ali is the greatest of all time, no matter racists, conservative Americans or his haters in general can say.
never has the cruel beauty of boxing been so well presented-i was brought to tears by the sheer will of both of these great men…..as an artist ,i drew them both for madison square garden boxing promotions and the new york times-i spent many afternoons at joe’s gym in philadelphia,and deer lake with ali….the bond between them is eternal-there will never again be a rivalry such as this- thank you for a masterpeice of a film-and god bless both joe’s memory and muhammad ali ….
with much respect steve lowery
its a bit naive of you to think it was purely to sell the fight ,the uncle tom thing is as bad as a white guy calling a black guy nigger,so much so joes son got beat up at school,i doubt ali meant that to happen ,but ali truly was not the paragon of virtue the world thinks he was ,watch him on parkinson ,he was a racist .