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Is Religion A Force For Good In The World?
Who does not love a good old-fashioned clash between an atheist and a religious convert? The possibilities for awkward silences, blasphemy and dump tables are endless, and one of them used to be prime minister of England.
On one side was a novelist and author Christopher Hitchens, a loud, proud self-declared cancer-stricken writer whose brush with death has done nothing to deny his deep-rooted conviction that God is not great, as he titled his book recent.
On the other was former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, a recent convert to Roman Catholicism who became the straw man to go against the scholar Hitchens in a debate about the existence of a divine being. The pair clashed on Friday at Roy Thomson Hall in Toronto for a philosophical debate about the moral of religion.
Surprises? Hitchens, who lives in Washington, DC has had a Christmas tree, as long as he has been a father and observe the Passover. He discovered his Jewish roots late in the family life, his wife, Carol Blue, is also Jewish.
And Blair’s father, Leo, a retired law professor, is a militant atheist. The long-term policy is also revealed in his recently published memoir, a journey: my political life has always been more interested in religion from politics.
For Mr Blair, who converted to Catholicism after leaving office in 2007, religion plays the most important functions, both personally and in their world view.
Is Religion A Force For Good In The World?,
@at4am One in 3 people don’t contract cancer. I don’t know if you just pulled that figure out of your arse or what, but I suggest if you are going to try and start an argument with me, that you try to get some compelling evidence, and not fabricate figures. Everyone has to die at some point, that’s just the way life works. Sure maybe at some point in the future we will evolve and change, develop self regenerating organs (like the liver), but not yet.
@ClTIZEN wow god of love ? i think you serve the points he made wonderfully. lol and seeing that 1 in 3 get cancer, this means that you’ll probably die of it too. what did you do to affront your all mighty? or heart disease god must have punished you? or a stroke? hmm what evil did you do? so everyone who dies of cancer is an atheist ? dang me where must be a lot of us? lol
@Sozlled I knew someone was bound to comment that hahah. Well in my opinion Blair mostly just uses the same type of examples, & Hitchens often sums up the opponents comment in his replies. So it’s more like if one prefers to hear Hitchens wit rather than waste time on that other tit ;P In any other case, I’d agree whole heartedly.
@edcampion19 By the way, a scientific theory is nothing like my theory that Man Utd suck because of a lack of leadership. A scientific theory is an explanation of a series of facts, it ties facts together. Evolution is a fact, it is based on facts. The theory of gravity is just as valid as that of evolution.
@Glenmead why should anyone attempt to prove anything to you, If you don’t accept the scientific method. Theory, test against nature, if it matches well then it is valuable. Can it make a successful prediction? If so, it can be regarded as a very valuable theory. If nature contradicts it, at any point, throw it out).
So Tony Blair’s message is Religion is like another other man made concept. Sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s bad. Where does the supernatural element come in to single it out as the greater moral compass. Oh, it’s all about interpretation. Nice try Tony, try again, or actually, don’t.
I personally see religion as an apple, shinny by the cover of charitable work and supposed morality and rotten inside of the actual effects that it has on humankind, wars, sexism, slavery, distorted morality, dellusion, dominion of fear, guilt and abstinence.
@vidarmoose I don’t know why this has been voted up, it takes at least 2 to debate. What’s the point in listening to JUST the side of Hitchens? If you want that, watch an interview, not a debate.The reason i watch these is to see people like Blair get demolished, despite his YEARS of oratory
@Fastlan3 I’m not a Christian, but tell me where jesus is supposed to have said that. I’m sceptical. He certainly said “love your enemies” etc, which rules out what you said.Also I think he said “realise you are not separate, and your ego is illusory, if you don’t you’ll be unhappy”. I just think he said it in the primitive old imagery of the time, or that he has been mistranslated/misinterpreted by those who wrote the bible, and “churchmen” since. We have no reliable record of events then.
“It is not because people misinterpret the scriptural text. it is precisely because they believe in them, that is the reason we have a problem.” Christopher HitchensTony, the Bible says nothing you were promoting, in fact your very lord Jesus, prohibits you in such action, how does the core principle be that which your own god is against? Exodus 20:5, Deuteronomy 30:10, Philippians 2:10-11, 1 John 2:15, 2 John 1:10, 2 Corinthians 6:14, 2 Corinthians 10:5, Hebrew 3:12, Matthew 25:41, Mark 7:9
Tony forgets that he is a Christian and that his religion has a book that he is suppose to believe is the word of his god, and in that book, it states what he should believe about these things he wishes to argue. He would be burned for speaking as he does by those very people inspired to create the very religion he proclaims to believe in. Is it not Jesus who said to not be friends with those who don’t believe, to not be luke-warm, to not love anyone but Yahweh, otherwise you burn in hell.
Again Tony, we understand there are those who do good because of their faith, the problem is that far more do bad because of their faith, and a large part of it goes unquestioned and as it is very much institutionalized in our cultures schools, work places, and social media. It doesn’t stop there, the progress religion makes is at the cost establishing the real reason people are good and should be. As tony himself stated, that “we should treat other nice becasue Jesus / god say for us to do so”
Tony Blair, you have just used religion to do yet more terrible acts, you made false accusation of Hitler, you attached arbitrarily moral ethical codes to what some could call spiritual and moral reasoning (what ever that is?) ensuring a great continuous flow of false association, and you have do so by expressing this to the world at large and under 7 minutes. Good job for showing how religion even when trying it’s best to be good still poisons everything.
@Glenmead Urm, no it doesn’t have to be by design. The current accepted scientific theory behind the moons existence (the ‘Double Whack Theory), is quite a shaky one and I’m confident that a new theory will replace it in the future. Bare in mind that the only issues with it are purely mathematical ones, the basic explanation behind the existence of moons in our solar system is simple gravitational formations of space matter, just like the planets they surround….
What a snake Blair is. He quotes Mohammed “Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he’s killed all mankind” Qran 5:32 Completely misses out the very next verse Qran 5:33 regarding those who make war on allah “they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off” Not convenient to quote that part Tony? …Christopher, your intellect is missed.
Blair rising to give his first rebuttal, around the 26/27 minute mark… He knows there. He knows it is not a debate he can possibly win. Only the barrister in him, and the high brow challenge of taking on hitchens enabled him to proceed with any measure of vigor whatsoever. I admire both men, Sadly, our world is a far worse off place without the presence of Christopher Hitchens. And may the next Christopher Hitchens who comes along, finally rescue the good in God from the clutches of Religion.
@platon841 Well, I agree Hich won every step of the way, but I have to mention that if these #’s truly reflect what the attendees’ opinions pre and post were (which I don’t for a moment think is truly accurate), I’d say both Tony and Hitch have something to be happy about, almost equally if we look at the numbers and decide that they are pretty reliable.
@yoursincerefriend’The moon is made of cheese.’- No it’s not’Prove to me the moon isn’t made of cheese.’Obviously the above reasoning is fallacious. The onus of proof is on the person who makes the claim. I believe the moon is made of cheese, it’s not other people’s responsibility to prove me wrong, it’s my responsibility to back up my claim with evidence.
@yoursincerefriend No, you are the one masking a claim, I am simply saying you have not proved it. If you want us to argue something, make a claim that is falsifiable (i.e. one which does not require proving a negative) and then I can explain why you are wrong.
@MastodonManiac He cant say that the world is dumber cause that would mean that we havent lernt anything! And i mean ‘spirit’ in the way of like ‘vibe’ or what ever, but not as in the ‘soul’. And dont tell me im not thinking proerply, thats just rude!!!
David, Thanks for responding.1. If you read his books Life of Jesus, Simply Christianity, watch his vdioes or read CPX website you’ll find whenever atheism pop up Dickson has his facts wrong or misrepresents atheists. But let’s look at these two vdioes and his latest book first. We can look at CPX web sites later.2. Leaving out the most relevant credentials of the person you try to refute does not sound like what I understand as an honest thing to do. Wells has published over last forty years about early Christianity! I have read couple of Wells’ books and couple of Dickson’s books. I can tell you Wells’ books are better researched. Have a quick look at the references lists on their books. Do you think Dickson present a honest description of Wells?3. Watch the second video from 1min:45s mark. Dickson begins I know no professional his argument of ignorance. Simple Google search could find him mythicist biblical scholars if he would bother do it. How can you claim to know the field without ever coming across Robert M. Price for example? If you Google mythicist biblical scholar Price is mentioned in the first result. What do you think of Dickson research?4. The quote was from Dickson’s Life of Jesus book which came with his DVD series, page 47.To refute his claim we can use war/death stats, as it is fairly easy to calculate. I’m happy for you to nominate a credible / encyclopedia stats source. If you don’t have a preference may I suggest White’s meta study values. Google Source List and Detailed Death Tolls for the Twentieth Century Hemoclysm and click the first link. The site has pages and pages of information. What number of deaths was caused by godless regimes? 70M?